39 Comments
Sasha Zelenski
1/20/2018 08:44:46 am
What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Abby Paternoster
1/20/2018 08:50:07 pm
I feel as if, in regards to most of these prompts, we have somewhat similar thoughts regarding topics such as the diversity of peer reviews and a labor-based grading system being helpful aspects of improving students' writing over time, and the benefits of peer reviews outweighing the momentary fear of judgement by said peers. I found it interesting how you mentioned that being in a creative writing club beforehand has, in a way, essentially already allowed you to experience the teacherless writing classroom firsthand. Hearing how helpful this experience was for you overall convinced me more of the overall effectiveness of the system. I additionally liked the point you made at the end of your response to the last prompt: "Writing badly is useful because it allows you to focus on the process, not the end product". I felt as if this is a pretty good, concise summary of the benefits of writing "badly", as, like you said, doing so allows you to acquire skills that you never knew you would in the first place.
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Abby Paternoster
1/20/2018 08:38:17 pm
1. I thought that the teacherless writing classroom was interesting, because it presented a means of improving peoples’ writing in a way that is different from the traditional classroom or workshop setting. It didn’t feature a head professor or instructor. Rather, it solely consisted of a small group of people, dedicated to bettering their own writing by listening to how several people, rather than just one, react to and perceive their work. Considering our class is a traditional classroom setting, I feel like we can only take away and imply so much from the teacherless writing classroom into our own class. I think that the labor based system is a good means of straying away from the traditional English class setting. Perhaps heavily incorporating peer reviews into our class would be a good way to steer more towards the teacherless writing classroom method, though, for the intents and purposes of our course, a head teacher is still necessary.
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Kaitlyn Chieh
1/21/2018 12:42:05 pm
From reading your response, we have many things regarding the reading and our experiences of writing in common. Such as using the labor grading contract as a way to improve your writing in the long run, incorporating peer reviews to receive more than one perspective on your work, and writing badly to strive for something entirely new and different. I also feel the same way about the concept of peer reviews. Since it is a common feeling among us, I feel more comfortable in sharing my own work with the class. After reading your experience of writing, I could also relate. As Elbow mentioned, sometimes only desperation is powerful enough to make us stop worrying about how your audience perceive our work. I think this is what happened to us. We both wanted to finish our writing and words came out easily although it was not our best. Additionally, I really like how you pointed out that peer reviews allows us to improve our writing that satisfies more than one person because it is entirely true if we want to pursue a teacherless writing classroom.
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Kaitlyn Chieh
1/21/2018 12:07:35 pm
1. What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Sean Grieshop
1/21/2018 12:47:21 pm
I found that as I was reading through your response a lot of the ideas that I had were discussed (even if I didn't put them in my response). I really liked the way you referenced back to the reading and used the ideas of the author to support your assertions. Your story about IB English was interesting because you found a way to use this style of using your own voice in your writing, even though you were in a class that was all about "writing correctly or incorrectly." Although you mentioned that English was not your first language, it seems as though you have an excellent command of the language and your writing flow was spectacular. I also really enjoyed reading about what you interpreted the ideas of "bad writing" because our ideas were quite similar.
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Katrina Gonzales
1/21/2018 10:05:08 pm
I did not really think about how the diverse student body within UC Berkeley and our class will affect this English course until I read your response. When reading Elbow's work, I forgot to reflect on the diversity in our school and how privileged we are to be in an environment where we all come from different backgrounds and have something unique to offer. You exemplify how we all come from different backgrounds because English is not your first language yet you have an honest, genuine way with words that I truly appreciate. Your response makes me excited for the class because you reminded me of the all of our different backgrounds!
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Samir Patel
1/22/2018 02:48:25 pm
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I had completely forgotten the diversity here on campus while reading the paper by Elbow. This diversity will ensure that everyone has their own voice while writing, and as a collective we can come together to learn through our voices and thoughts. In your answer you note how you had difficulty because English was not your first language and you were writing to satisfy the teacher. I thought it was interesting that once you broke away from this conformity you were able to prosper as a writer. Furthermore, I am happy that you were able to receive more positive feedback with your writing after you had decided to write within your own style as opposed to merely pleasing your teacher.
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Sean Grieshop
1/21/2018 12:36:01 pm
The Teacherless Writing Class room is something that I thought was very interesting. I found that there were very large similarities between this reading and the way that this R1A class is set up. The focus on our writing not being perfect really helped me feel motivated to write. I also really found the use of the quote by e.e. Cummings to be hysterical. We can take a large amount of information from this reading and apply it to the class by really using one another in the class in order to improve our writing. I think having a laid back atmosphere, which we experienced the first day of class will really help each and every one of our writings. A time that I can recall that I was able to write freely and received constructive feedback was my senior year from my English IV teacher. Although we did everything for a grade, she made writing easy and fun. She gave positive and helpful feedback and she made it less about the grade and more about our growth as writers. I found that during my time as a senior, my writing was able to skyrocket into a new dimension. I now have confidence in writing papers and working through assignments that require a large amount of writing. I believe that having feedback from my peers will be useful because we are in the same position. All relatively close in age, in the same school, working the same hours, my classmates and I may share many of the same experiences. That allows for a more constructive lense in which we read each other’s work. We can more easily identify the times when we may have been more crunched for time and had to write something that is less than what we would have written had we budgeted our time, and on the other side of that, recognize when we put in a large amount of time and effort into a project. Having another student’s point of view on my work will be a great way to flourish as a writer. I am excited to try this concept out because it seems as though we are going to get a lot of growth from this semester. This idea of having the entire class read my work does make me a little bit nervous, but I am excited to hear what other people have to say about the way I write. According to Peter Elbow, bad writing is all about learning from the mistakes. It takes bad writing to learn what good writing is and it is okay to write poorly as long as you write something. It teaches you how to write in such a way that you grow as a writer. That is why I am excited to work in a class that works similarly to a teacherless writing class.
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Jiwon Shin
1/21/2018 04:11:24 pm
Overall, I think we share some things in common but not all. I thought applying this concept to our class is somewhat impossible because I thought most of us cannot be committed to class like Elbow suggested. However, after reading your comment, I now think my thought can be wrong. I envy your senior year experience because I never had a chance to become confident in my writing. I also agree with us being in the same position and sharing similarities are great reasons why feedback from our peers is useful. Just from your writing, I was able to tell that you are already ready and excited. I cannot see the future but your attitude tells me that you will learn a lot and be a great writer in the end of this course.
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Jiwon Shin
1/21/2018 03:34:02 pm
1.What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Valeria Gonzalez
1/21/2018 07:06:20 pm
I like that you brought up the idea that this teacherless writing class will not work because yes the majority if not all are probably just taking this course as fulfillment requirement. Indeed it will make it difficult to get everyone to out the same amount of effort which is why you gave me a new perspective to my idea of this method, although I still have hope that it will work. Perhaps a few weeks in we are collectively able to be motivated to truly improve our writing skills. Nonetheless, we have similar thoughts on obtaining feedback from our peers. I too have mixed feeling about it because it would be more useful but at the same time it will make us a bit nervous to hear that our writing did not have a positive impact on our peers. Lastly, I think it is safe to say we both agree on writing bad improving our skills although it might be challenging. I enjoyed reading your responses. It gave me another outlook on this type of method being used for class and assured me that I am not the only one with some mixed feelings about it.
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Valeria Gonzalez
1/21/2018 06:37:21 pm
1.What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Saeed Yahya Mohanna
1/21/2018 10:03:13 pm
I think you and I have had more or less similar experiences with writing, especially with regards to the fact that we both think of ourselves as "bad" writers because we struggle with it so much. I can see why writing about something personal can make writing easier, but I have not had an experience similar to yours, so I cannot really relate to that. Moreover, I do also feel more intimidated when receiving feedback from a teacher, due to their immense experience, and the power they have over deciding if you are good enough for a particular letter grade or not. This is why I would prefer to try out Elbow's method, which will be uncomfortable at first, but more effective than writing out of fear of failure. I hope that we will both benefit from improving our writing using the teacherless writing class method.
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Melissa Regalado
1/21/2018 08:41:49 pm
* What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Antara Jha
1/21/2018 10:22:38 pm
I really liked your observation that a display of vulnerability by each of us can actually serve to build trust between all of us. I believe that it would bring us closer and help us be more honest with each other. I find what you said about peer reviews- that we would be more receptive to feedback from someone who is at our own level- interesting, but I'm not quite sure I fully agree with it. While I understand your point, I also think that feedback from someone more experienced and skilled than us would be something that people would probably hold in higher regard than what their equals have to say. But that said, I do also think that we would be more comfortable with each other since we are on the same level!
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Saeed Yahya Mohanna
1/21/2018 09:43:12 pm
What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Sai Wignarajah
1/22/2018 03:00:46 pm
Saeed, I really connected with what you said about your main concern in writing so far: did it appeal to the teacher. I could not agree with you more, that it will definitely be an unfamiliar step for many of us student writers to step out of what we have grown accustomed to— writing to please the teacher. But I, too, am eager and excited to see how we can all grow over the course of this semester with this new perspective you mentioned in mind. Your writing experience for your Model U.N. speech was fulfilling to read about; it definitely gives validity to the practice of gaining feedback from many peers in order to better understand how to communicate with your vastly diverse audience. I liked how you described your audience feedback as a “sample size”. I’m a math guy, and I enjoyed thinking about the concept of peer feedback through an important statistics idea: the larger the sample, the better it can be applied to the entire population. The fear of failure & unfamiliarity you mentioned is something I can connect with, as I even postponed my R1A by a semester to avoid having to come to terms with the idea that I might fall down a few times before I can write well. I am nervous about this approach to writing which most of us have had no exposure to before, but I am glad to know that you, like me, are excited and willing to get through the uncomfortable part so that we can all improve our writing.
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Katrina Gonzales
1/21/2018 09:50:40 pm
1. Because being in a traditional classroom for my whole academic life, the concept of a teacherless writing class room seemed like a unique setting. In a traditional English class, I am more set on pleasing my teachers to get a good grade. In contrast, I feel like a teacherless writing classroom allows for more room for learning and growth. A teacherless writing classroom forces a student to think creatively since they have no instructor telling them what or how to write. In comparison to a tradition class, the idea of a teacherless writing classroom creates a more collaborative environment where one must be able to take criticism and apply it to their work. Sharing writing also allows students to see what works and doesn’t work for their audience. With regards to our class, it would be more fun to look it as a teacherless writing class because we can focus on improving as a reader instead of striving for an A. We should be able listen to each other’s opinions on our writing so we can learn instead of taking the criticism harshly.
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Melissa Regalado
1/22/2018 12:13:53 pm
I've had the same experience with writing as you and, likewise, I'm looking forward to working in a teacherless classroom environment. I agree with you on what you said about how this way of learning will allow more improvement on our skills since we will actually focus on the writing and not a letter grade. I have the same view point on why writing badly is ok. I also tend to use complex vocabulary at times, which consequently will distract me from the actual content of the text.
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Antara
1/21/2018 10:11:07 pm
Q: What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Lizeth
1/22/2018 02:03:36 am
Antara,
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Katie Suzuki
1/21/2018 10:52:59 pm
I found that the emphasis on the enjoyment of writing and development of skill as a writer over the more short-term goal of getting a grade was an interesting aspect of the teacherless writing class. Before reading the article, I hadn’t heard of the method of peer feedback that Peter Elbow encouraged. The idea of experiencing a piece of writing rather than simply reading seemed foreign in a classroom setting.
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Sasha Zelenski
1/22/2018 03:30:26 pm
Hi Katie!
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Lizeth
1/22/2018 01:55:54 am
• What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Alexa Kideys
1/22/2018 12:50:54 pm
I found your views to be similar to mine. I found it a bit comical that you wrote about having a journal and want to write well in it just in case someone happens to read your writing because I also keep a journal and have that same fear. I also often find myself only writing for a teacher or myself. However, fairly recently this has changed for me since all my friends from high school live so far away from me and we write letters to one another. I am a bit afraid of peer review just like you are but also realize that it will give me the potential to grow.
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Marwat Al-Olefi
1/22/2018 07:35:18 am
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Paola Perez
1/22/2018 12:29:31 pm
You brought up something that I find very interesting and completely agree with. I find that when I wrote, especially an essay for English class, I was never completely sure that I had explained the topic correctly or fully. I agree with you in that having a peer with no background knowledge of the topic is better because then their feedback is more thorough and you can explain in a way that is much better than what is simply written on paper. I also agree that we can get better only by writing "badly" because then we can learn from our mistakes.
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1/22/2018 07:46:30 am
1. What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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Christina To
1/22/2018 08:36:33 am
I agree with your point of view on feedback from your peers. I also believe that the personal reaction of your peers is much more useful when writing an essay as they can provide a diverse point of view that you may have not thought about as you were writing. I understand your fear of being judged by others, however it is a part of the process that helps you improve your writing. We are all going to be judged, so you are not alone, I hope this makes you feel a little bit more comfortable with peer feedback!
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Christina To
1/22/2018 08:28:09 am
1. What struck you about the teacherless writing classroom? What do you think we can take away from this reading to apply to our own class?
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1/22/2018 01:50:38 pm
I agree with you that classmates and peers are responsible for their growth in writing because their honest feedback is what helps writers understand whether their point is being clearly perceived. Also, my college application writing process was very similar to yours in that I focused on catering my personal statements to what I believed the readers would want to hear rather than focusing on what was really important to me. After having my peers read through my personal statements, they made me realize that I should not worry about what others will think and just freely write. In addition, I believe that feedback from peers is more significant than feedback from teachers because it places less pressure and provides a wide range of reactions from different people.
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Marwat Al-Olefi
1/22/2018 04:09:33 pm
I love that you mentioned that you are the best representation of yourself, rather then having you think about what colleges should perceive you as. We are always caught up with what people think about us that we don't give ourselves a chance to express who we are to others.
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Paola Perez
1/22/2018 10:35:03 am
-Something that really struck me about the teacherless writing classroom is that it is an idea I had never heard of, or considered. However, I think that after reading this article, I find that it explains why I always dreaded writing. Now, I hope that with this new form of teaching I can come to love writing, or at least not hate it.
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Marwat Al-Olefi
1/22/2018 04:12:52 pm
This statement, "What I really like about this form of teaching is that the emphasis is not on getting the grade, but instead on truly learning and growing as a writer" reminds each and one of us that we should not define ourselves with letter grades, but the improvements you show over long period of trails and errors.
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Samir Patel
1/22/2018 10:39:03 am
1. There are similarities between the teacherless writing classroom and our English class. The two share a similarity in the sense that both are encouraging for writers to engage in multiple drafts before coming to a final product. Our class is fairly small in size and everyone will have the chance to read each other's writing, which is another important aspect of the teacherless writing approach. I agree with the importance of having other individuals read and critique your own work. This is a very helpful feedback tool as you can gain a better understanding of what others think of your writing. In a traditional class you have an instructor who gives feedback to all of the students. An interesting point is made by Elbow that because there is only one person critiquing your work, you then receive very little insight as to how the teacher "perceived" and "experienced " your work. The idea of a teacherless writing class abolishes this aspect as students have the opportunity for several individuals to anlyze and review the work that they have written.
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Alexa Kideys
1/22/2018 10:40:44 am
1.The teacherless writing classroom is unlike any experience I have ever been given the chance to learn from. I appreciate how the writing class differs from a traditional classroom setting in a number of ways, the main one being that everyone is committed to the process of improving their writing. The thing that stood out to me the most is the idea that everyone simply just tells the writer what impact the writing had on them rather than just editing their essays and rewriting them as to how they would write their own. I like this a lot because it parts from the traditional belief I have always had in a writing classroom: there is a right and a wrong way to write. While this is true in the grammatical sense, I have felt like I needed to learn the structure my teacher preferred, in other words, the “right” way to write, and write that way in order to receive a good grade. I believe our class should take the same level of commitment and time that the students of the teacherless writing class ideally would have. I think it would also be most beneficial to steer clear of correcting what is “wrong” with a person’s work and instead focus on what kind of impact the words had on you.
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Katie Suzuki
1/22/2018 03:11:46 pm
I can completely relate to your experience in a classroom setting in which there's an expected "right and wrong" way to write. For me, that's always been one of the main factors holding me back along with my writing.
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Sai Wignarajah
1/22/2018 11:22:08 am
1. I thought it was extremely innovative to take a system that has been ingrained in us since first grade, a system so well-established in our lives to date, and completely turn it upside down. It sounded like chaotic anarchy when I first read “teacherless”, but it grew more beautiful in my mind as I read more. Until this reading, I had not even once thought about how the reader might experience my writing, and no reader had ever shared with me what they experienced. I was used to receiving a loosely constructed rubric with a letter grade and a few things to work on. But in the teacherless classroom where seven or more people will be relaying to you how they each perceived your words— this was new feedback from the audience I didn’t know writers could obtain. Writing in the teacherless classroom seems to have a more horizontal relationship between writer and reader, whereas in the typical writing course it’s a rigid vertical relationship: you write to match your teacher’s theory/rubric/constructed model of what is “good” writing. What resonated with me in the teacherless classroom was that it doesn’t matter at all whether our writing fits the “good writing theory”; what matters is that your words can be experienced in the intended way by the reader. This was a little scary to think about when I first read it—this notion that a teacher is not needed but rather an audience that can transmit honest feedback is was scary at first. We’ve been used to something else for years. I think in application to our own class, we can adopt many of the same principles such as getting many peers to read our work and communicate with us not their advice or things to work on, but their experiences and reactions to the words. I still think for our class having a teacher is okay, as having someone with more wisdom and advice on how we can communicate what we want to communicate will be beneficial. In fact, we want our writing to be perceived in the best way by the most diverse range of people. Having a teacher read and provide feedback on your writing will simply give the writer more insight on how his or her words can affect different people.
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